Samsung's new QLC Flash could bring 16TB SSDs to market

[Alfonso Maruccia]

Forward-looking: Multi-level memory cells (MLC) can store more than a single bit of digital information at the same time, and MLC chips are the cornerstone of modern solid-state drives. Samsung is about to introduce a new generation of SSDs based on quad-level memory cells (QLC), providing unprecedented areal density for storage applications.

The 2024 edition of IEEE's International Solid-State Circuits Conference (ISSCC) is coming to San Francisco between February 18-22, and Samsung is seemingly ready to steal the show with the introduction of its new memory solutions. The corporation has developed a new generation of QLC Flash chips, which will include 280 layers for a density of 28.5Gb per square millimeter.

Samsung's new QLC NAND V9 chips are claimed to be 50% denser than the competition (YMTC 232L), providing the highest areal density in the Flash memory industry (QLC or TLC) right now. QLC NAND V9 chips are also faster, with a maximum transfer rate of 3.2 Gbps compared to a 2.4 Gbps data rate provided by the previous generation.

Data transfer and performance are still an issue for QLC-based SSDs, Tom's Hardware remarks, but a 3.2 Gbps throughput should be more than enough to make the new chips a compelling solution for PCIe solid-state drives. Thanks to its QLC NAND V9 tech, Samsung could soon start selling 16TB M.2 SSDs.

Samsung has repeatedly stated that QLC NAND Flash chips are the future of solid-state storage, as TLC memory chips are quickly reaching the maximum raw capacity they can achieve. The higher, unprecedented surface density provided by the new QLC chips would bring lower costs to the manufacturing process, though speed still isn't on par with modern, high-end consumer NVMe SSDs sold by both Samsung and the competition.

Samsung's presentation during the upcoming ISSCC should at least confirm that the company is making significant progress in the development of the QLC technology. Current QLC-based SSDs employ large cache memories that can take up to 25 percent of the total storage capacity of the drive, easing the performance issue slightly. When the cache is full, write speeds can collapse and fall back to sub-par SATA levels (100-300 MBps).

Memory manufacturers currently competing with Samsung in the QLC storage market include Micron, which has developed a 232-layer QLC chip for a 19.5 Gb storage density per square millimeter. YMTC is also developing a record QLC memory solution, with 232 layers and a 20.62 Gb density per square millimeter.

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https://www.techspot.com/news/101692-samsung-new-qlc-flash-chips-could-bring-16tb.html

 

[VitalyT]

Samsung has been falling behind in SSD-s, uncharacteristic for a supposed tech "leader". Their competition was selling 8TB M.2 SSD-s for 2 years before Samsung finally came up with a 4TB drive, which is vaguely pathetic.

Case in point, Sabrent M.2 8TB SSD-s hit the general market in early 2022.

 

[WhiteLeaff]

We are regressing if the future is QLC...

 

[VitalyT]

We are regressing if the future is QLC...

There's no if, the entire society is regressing, and QLC got nothing to do with it.

 

[Manoa]

More density per cell less life and it also reduce the performane

 

[JamesBlond]

Some good news for Cheaper phones

 

[yRaz]

There's no if, the entire society is regressing, and QLC got nothing to do with it.

Maybe it has everything to do with it. If we're in a simulation and the data is stored on QLC then it would explain why nearly everyone seems brain damaged.

 

[VitalyT]

Maybe it has everything to do with it. If we're in a simulation and the data is stored on QLC then it would explain why nearly everyone seems brain damaged.

U know how to put a new shine on overreaching.

 

[Nima304]

Samsung has been falling behind in SSD-s, uncharacteristic for a supposed tech "leader". Their competition was selling 8TB M.2 SSD-s for 2 years before Samsung finally came up with a 4TB drive, which is vaguely pathetic.

Case in point, Sabrent M.2 8TB SSD-s hit the general market in early 2022.

It's not just capacity, they're behind on PCIe 5.0 SSDs as well. The 990 Pro was supposed to be a PCIe 5.0 SSD, then was released with PCIe 4.0. The 990 Evo uses PCIe 5.0, but only two lanes, which is essentially useless and only matches PCIe 4.0 x4 speeds.

 

[yRaz]

U know how to put a new shine on overreaching.

Well I find it more likely everyone is brain damaged than that we're living in a simulation

 

[Thatsdisgusting]

What you need pcie 5.0 for ssds for anyway?

 

[VitalyT]

What you need pcie 5.0 for ssds for anyway?

This: https://www.techspot.com/news/101676-teamgroup-readies-new-t-force-ge-pro-low.html

 

[yRaz]

This: https://www.techspot.com/news/101676-teamgroup-readies-new-t-force-ge-pro-low.html

If only CPU manufacturers would give us enough PCIe lanes to make using more than 1 NVME drive practical

 

[mbrowne5061]

Everyone in here arguing about longevity and performance, and here I am just hoping they surpass HDD in price/GB. I want an all-SSD NAS. A RAID 5 or 6 NAS would offset both reliability and longevity concerns of QLC, but being all-flash would allow the NAS to be much more compact, energy efficient, and probably feel 'snappier' than a a similar array with HDDs.

 

[yRaz]

Everyone in here arguing about longevity and performance, and here I am just hoping they surpass HDD in price/GB. I want an all-SSD NAS. A RAID 5 or 6 NAS would offset both reliability and longevity concerns of QLC, but being all-flash would allow the NAS to be much more compact, energy efficient, and probably feel 'snappier' than a a similar array with HDDs.

Okay, so QLC isn't that bad, raid 5 is fine. But unless you're impatient then why do you need an SSD NAS? I can stream to multiple computers in my house in 4k and I'm running 4tb seagate iron wolf drives in raid 5. Unless you are a commercial production studio then you don't need am SSD NAS unless you're just impatient. The cost difference alone has made it possible for people to have NASs and now they're complaining about drive speed while they're probably only wored for cat5 if their house is wired at all.

It seems like people are more angry about SSDs(and the required hardware to support them) being expensive than they actually are about not having an SSD NAS.

Go get threadripper, throw 5 16x NVME raid cards in it and build your SSD NAS

 

[hahahanoobs]

We only have PCIe 5 now cause data centers need it. Almost any old SSD is still fine for the majority. Whatever is available in our lifetimes will be fine.

 

[kiwigraeme]

Okay, so QLC isn't that bad, raid 5 is fine. But unless you're impatient then why do you need an SSD NAS? I can stream to multiple computers in my house in 4k and I'm running 4tb seagate iron wolf drives in raid 5. Unless you are a commercial production studio then you don't need am SSD NAS unless you're just impatient. The cost difference alone has made it possible for people to have NASs and now they're complaining about drive speed while they're probably only wored for cat5 if their house is wired at all.

It seems like people are more angry about SSDs(and the required hardware to support them) being expensive than they actually are about not having an SSD NAS.

Go get threadripper, throw 5 16x NVME raid cards in it and build your SSD NAS

A bit harsh , mbrowne qualified it to on an cost per Gb , more compact , energy efficient and snappier ( ie even if speeds of HD stream Ok , you don't get the instant on feel )

You could have a tiny NUC , with 16 or 32 Tbs hooked up to your massive TV

Still have a spinning rust backup , as have old drives anyway .

Flipside is get a T9 8Tb Sammy ( ie both in future )
and attach by USB C drive to media player , and if plan a specific movies , just upload drive with Remux Atmos , to download a remux from your personal cloud ( www) only takes 10 minutes if sits in the most popular part of the cloud , so could throw 100 full featured 4K remuxes on their in a day or so from your "personal cloud"

 

[yRaz]

A bit harsh , mbrowne qualified it to on an cost per Gb , more compact , energy efficient and snappier ( ie even if speeds of HD stream Ok , you don't get the instant on feel )

You could have a tiny NUC , with 16 or 32 Tbs hooked up to your massive TV

Still have a spinning rust backup , as have old drives anyway .

Flipside is get a T9 8Tb Sammy ( ie both in future )
and attach by USB C drive to media player , and if plan a specific movies , just upload drive with Remux Atmos , to download a remux from your personal cloud ( www) only takes 10 minutes if sits in the most popular part of the cloud , so could throw 100 full featured 4K remuxes on their in a day or so from your "personal cloud"

What's the bit rate of 4k?

 

[AndreV]

Samsung has named its real TLC as MLC. I wont be surprised if this Samsung's QLC its actually PLC.

 

[kiwigraeme]

What's the bit rate of 4k?

Spinning rust could pump it up , no problems , as long as not USB 1 or it's ilk

Probably biggest remuxes are about 85Gb for say a 100 minute movie. That would include multiple audio streams though .
Never heard anyone having problems as only 30 fps max
Modern TVs would struggle with 8K 120 fps I believe
Outside of hollywood elite streaming services , think Sonys streaming service is highest bit rate

a quick grab
"As noted on the Bravia Core website, it includes what the company calls Pure Stream, “which can stream HDR movies at up to 80Mbps — similar to 4K UHD Blu-ray ""

Most spinning rust can write faster than that at least 120 Mbs on external drive from memory ,Plus I assume some caching/buffering on media player.

From memory most 4K streamed is in range 10-20Mbps on likes of Prime /netflix

 

[yRaz]

Spinning rust could pump it up , no problems , as long as not USB 1 or it's ilk

Probably biggest remuxes are about 85Gb for say a 100 minute movie. That would include multiple audio streams though .
Never heard anyone having problems as only 30 fps max
Modern TVs would struggle with 8K 120 fps I believe
Outside of hollywood elite streaming services , think Sonys streaming service is highest bit rate

a quick grab
"As noted on the Bravia Core website, it includes what the company calls Pure Stream, “which can stream HDR movies at up to 80Mbps — similar to 4K UHD Blu-ray ""

Most spinning rust can write faster than that at least 120 Mbs on external drive from memory ,Plus I assume some caching/buffering on media player.

From memory most 4K streamed is in range 10-20Mbps on likes of Prime /netflix

Oh, I was going to ask you a series of questions to show you why you were wrong, but I guess we don't have to do that now. an HDD NAS can stream 4k video to several devices without issue. I honestly just want someone to make an argument as to why HDDs are obsolete now.

 

[trparky]

I'd be enthusiastic if it wasn't QLC. They can keep that crap.

 

[zamroni111]

Everyone in here arguing about longevity and performance, and here I am just hoping they surpass HDD in price/GB. I want an all-SSD NAS. A RAID 5 or 6 NAS would offset both reliability and longevity concerns of QLC, but being all-flash would allow the NAS to be much more compact, energy efficient, and probably feel 'snappier' than a a similar array with HDDs.

if you need reliable & extra longevity ssd, you should buy enterprise or datacenter ssd.
consumer ssd, including wd black or 990pro only has 600x full write, e.g. 600 TB write for 1 TB ssd.
meanwile, enterprise ssd has 1800x write (5 year x 1 daily write per day; around $100/TB ) or 5200x write (5Y x 3 DWPD; around $200/TB)
they usually don't use m.2, but u.2/3 or e1 connectors but you can buy usb or m.2 converter for it.

 

[mbrowne5061]

Okay, so QLC isn't that bad, raid 5 is fine. But unless you're impatient then why do you need an SSD NAS?

Need? Who said anything about "need"? This is 100% "want".

 

[mbrowne5061]

if you need reliable & extra longevity ssd, you should buy enterprise or datacenter ssd.
consumer ssd, including wd black or 990pro only has 600x full write, e.g. 600 TB write for 1 TB ssd.
meanwile, enterprise ssd has 1800x write (5 year x 1 daily write per day; around $100/TB ) or 5200x write (5Y x 3 DWPD; around $200/TB)
they usually don't use m.2, but u.2/3 or e1 connectors but you can buy usb or m.2 converter for it.

My attitude about enterprise drives - HDD or SSD - is unless you have a massive amount of drives operating (like "Amazon datacenter" massive), the up-charge on enterprise drives probably isn't worth is compared to simply replacing drives as they wear out. IIRC, Backblaze usually concludes the same thing during their reliability reports; if you only have a handful of drives, the real rate of failure will be low enough that the extra costs of the enterprise drives doesn't really work out favorably.
That said, that doesn't mean I don't want to fill this hypothetical flash NAS with nothing but enterprise SSDs.