These 2024 GM EVs can power your home during a blackout using bidirectional charging

[sorten]

Oops! California is already asking residents to not charge EVs during certain peak periods -- and this is with EVs making up only about 7% of the total vehicles in the state:

"Aug, 2022: owners of electric vehicles are being asked to avoid charging during peak energy usage hours in an effort to protect California's power grid."

MSN

True. During heat waves the state and the grid operators will request that residents reduce their energy usage during peak hours, usually between 4pm and 9pm. That request also covers things like washers, dryers, and air conditioners. Most EV owners are already on time of use plans, which offers significantly reduced rates for charging overnight.

With V2H, grid operators in the near future will have the ability to pay EV owners to make the energy in their EV batteries available during peak load to help the grid.

 

[sorten]

GM began the process of changing cell providers late last fall (2022) after the continued faults and failures of LG chemicals pouch type cells that were the back bone of "Ultium". The platform isn't new so to speak as it was at the heart of the Hummer EV which has been on sale for over a year and has been a sales disaster. This is what I meant about not being sure what GM is even referring to as "Ultium" any longer. The page you linked from GM is no longer what "Ultium" supposedly is as GM publicly stated that they're changing to 4680 cylindrical cells for their EV efforts moving forward during quarter 1. "Ultium" was supposed to be as the page you linked stated about flexibility and adaptability to the needs of multiple platforms from massive vehicles like the Hummer EV down to the forthcoming recently resurrected Bolt.

GM Is Ordering a Massive Overhaul With Its EV Batteries: Report

General Motors may move its new Ultium battery-electric architecture from pouch to cylindrical cell batteries.

www.thedrive.com

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2023/07/heres-how-many-gmc-hummer-ev-units-were-built-in-june-2023/

For comparison Tesla sells similar numbers of the Model X in a quarter to what the Hummer EV has sold in over 2 years! Also the Hummer EV costs GM in excess of 100K USD per unit while the Model X has a margin between 15-19%. I'd cite another comparable vehicle but to be quite frank there aren't any. BMW iX kinda but the sales there aren't great either and the Mercedes and Rivian ESUV's simply haven't been out long enough to have a decent data set, though both look promising.

At this point GM's entire "Ultium" platform is nothing more than marketing buzz words and obfuscation while they hurriedly swap to proven battery tech before the shareholders realize what happened. They have pulled a literal bait and switch regarding investors, though that doesn't appear to have been the intent as the simple math of it is that it appears the GM is in the red to the tune of at least 90% margin wise on each Hummer EV and that translates directly over to the Escalade EV as well as the Silverado EV. They have no other choice than to swap out for a proven and scalable battery technology.

Interesting stuff. At this point it sounds like speculation rather than fact, but I admit it sounds like a change is brewing. Doesn't change the fact that that the Bolt fires and Ultium batteries are unrelated. As an interesting side note about Bolts, GM replaced the batteries in our Bolt back in the spring, and now we're getting 300+ miles on range. It seems like the replacement packs can store more energy than the originals.

I don't think the Hummer EV was ever expected to sell in volume. People who are excited about EVs can't stand vehicles like the Hummer (with notable exceptions), and people who drive Hummers don't spend time worry about emissions. I wouldn't be surprised if Ms. Barra was hoping for it to fail spectacularly.

 

[nulll]

Interesting stuff. At this point it sounds like speculation rather than fact, but I admit it sounds like a change is brewing. Doesn't change the fact that that the Bolt fires and Ultium batteries are unrelated. As an interesting side note about Bolts, GM replaced the batteries in our Bolt back in the spring, and now we're getting 300+ miles on range. It seems like the replacement packs can store more energy than the originals.

I don't think the Hummer EV was ever expected to sell in volume. People who are excited about EVs can't stand vehicles like the Hummer (with notable exceptions), and people who drive Hummers don't spend time worry about emissions. I wouldn't be surprised if Ms. Barra was hoping for it to fail spectacularly.

I agree regarding the Hummer EV as while it's interesting it wasn't really supposed to be anything more than a viral marketing campaign on wheels, same play as the cybertruck or the Lucid air sapphire. It does appear as though the US legacy brands are now trying to put their heads back in the sand and pretend the EV market isn't the new paradigm, though the fact that they're taking massive losses on every EV they sell is equally likely to be the driver behind this.

There is some speculation certainly as I'm not aware of any contract specifics having been disclosed regarding GM's definitive next cell technology. Regarding the Bolt, Hummer EV and Cadillac Lyric batteries however, they are certainly related as they're the same. Let me be clear here, Ultium is just branding nonsense the same as suggesting that an HDMI cable is special because it has a special package on it and a shiny sheathing over the cable. The batteries of all GM vehicles are manufactured by LG chemical on the NMC (Nickel Manganese Cobalt) chemistry. For now they have all been of a pouch in module type design and they are all at risk of the same type of thermal runaway associated as a fail state with that specific chemistry. The benefits of this chemistry over LiFePO4 is that NMC has a 10-15% (depends on manufacturer specific patented chemistry variation) energy density advantage over LFP designs with a substantially higher risk of thermal runaway. As of yet the specific increase in risk of thermal runaway is yet to be determined but both the NHTSA and Chinese authorities are looking into it as it isn't getting any less Hindenburgee.

With regard to the the Cadillac lyric, that is a little different as that is still an NMC type cell chemistry with the addition of Aluminum (NMCA). This should in theory provide a similar benefit to Mn in LFP chemistries in that it will inhibit dendrite formation thereby extending the life of the cell and its total cycle count (we don't know yet as it isn't really used in much besides the Lyric and that's a small sample size). It may also lead to energy density increases but there is more work to be done yet.

The two big players in the EV space being Tesla and BYD have long since left this battery chemistry behind (both started moving to LFP in 2018-2019), this chemistry is at least 2 generations behind the current state of the art. Generally speaking the step beyond NMC is LFP and the step beyond that is the chemistry which is going into the new "highland" Model 3, Cybertruck and any of the top tier EV's produced by BYD in China. You can already order the next generation Model 3 in parts of the EU and UK and we'll see Cybertrucks getting delivered in the standard nebulous Tesla release time frame. GM is simply buying off the shelf tech from LG Chemical and slapping a label on it in the form of "Ultium". GM engineers their own electric motors and has them produced by LG as well, though again this relationship is in flux and subject to change in the near term as Samsung is pushing hard for US contracts and production with its own take on the new M3P variant of LFP 4680 standard cell. This would allow GM to exit the rocky partnership with LG while avoiding the optics of just sidling up to Tesla for their extremely well proven Panasonic provided LFP 4680 cells.

What GM is doing here is no different than what Monster cables were doing with HDMI in the mid 2000's, it is simply a branding exercise. I suppose more poignantly it is also exactly what VW group has done by throwing in the towel regarding development of their own EV platform in favor of purchasing into 4 different Chinese EV makers to build their VW, Audi and most likely Porsche EV's going forward.

 

[scavengerspc]

True. During heat waves the state and the grid operators will request that residents reduce their energy usage during peak hours, usually between 4pm and 9pm. That request also covers things like washers, dryers, and air conditioners. Most EV owners are already on time of use plans, which offers significantly reduced rates for charging overnight.

And there you pinpointed part of the problem. All most people want to hear is the request to not charge the cars during those hours, even though very few will charge during the day.

The part about those requests also including AC, among others, seems to just fly over their heads

 

[Endymio]

.. All most people want to hear is the request to not charge the cars during those hours, even though very few will charge during the day.

If "very few" charged during the day, California's governor wouldn't have asked them to refrain from doing so.

And the "day vs. night" argument misses the point. As you yourself calculated earlier, a charge on a 200kW-hr battery like this will run an average home for several days. Charge your vehicle overnight, and you've consumed 4 or 5 days worth of power -- in just a few hours time.

When 50% of Californians are charging vehicles rather than 5%, the night-time load will be significantly higher than today's daytime peak.

 

[scavengerspc]

When 50% of Californians are charging vehicles rather than 5%, the night-time load will be significantly higher than today's daytime peak.

Going to need to see your proof on that. Real facts. I just gathered them so, you first please.

But to get started on what you are claiming:

"On a normal summer day in California, the system demand is about 30,000 megawatts. On these super peak days, it's about 50,000 megawatts"

Rotating outages 'could be imminent' as demand on California's energy grid remains high

California is at a high risk of rolling outages on Tuesday, the state's grid operator said, citing an extremely strained power grid from people increasing energy use.

www.kcra.com

And don't even get me started on how many will not be needing the entire capacity of their battery every single night.

 

[Endymio]

Going to need to see your proof on that.

You proved it yourself. A charge on one of these vehicles is 3 to 5 days electricity use for an average household, or (since even CA homes use electricity at night) more like four to six days of daytime-only consumption. Throw in the 15-30% charging and conversion loss, and we're up to 5 to 7 days worth of (daytime-usage) home electricity use. All consumed in a few hours. Yes, many homeowners won't need a full charge every night. But even if they need it every two or three days, the vehicle's consumption -- when added to what the home already uses each night -- pushes nightly consumption far above current daytime levels. Calculate it yourself; it's simple math.

But wait! It gets much worse. In California, peak energy use is summer afternoons. But in many northern states, peak energy use is already during the night, during winter months. These vehicles will mostly be being charged at times when the grid is already strained to capacity.

 

[scavengerspc]

You proved it yourself.

Exactly. I proved myself. So me proof that "When 50% of Californians are charging vehicles rather than 5%, the night-time load will be significantly higher than today's daytime peak." Or provide your math, please. I'm too tired, man. And how often every EV in Cali will need to charge the battery fully, from near 0 to 90-100% every night.

But wait! It gets much worse.

Brother, it always does with you.

So I did my part. You even said so. So do as I asked, please. If you don't then we can call this dead. Again. I doubt mailpup wants to have to come in and provide more free babysitting.

I don't think the Hummer EV was ever expected to sell in volume. People who are excited about EVs can't stand vehicles like the Hummer (with notable exceptions), and people who drive Hummers don't spend time worry about emissions.

I can say that people that own the smokey Hummers don't have concerns if they are made more efficient. So if lower emissions come into play, it's not a problem. And some even are tired of what it costs to own those things. A few Hummer owners are looking at the near zero maintenance of the Hummer EV and the mileage ratings (EPA fuel economy estimates for the Hummer EV are 51 MPGe city, 43 MPGe highway, and 47 MPGe combined).
Not to mention the performance of it (0-60 in 3.3 seconds). Quite impressive from a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 10,400 pounds. So long as no towing is expected from it.

 

[Impudicus]

3 weeks after the outage began you find yourself without power, without transportation. You have 5 gallons of gas in the garage for your lawnmower, and 2 gallons w/ the oil mix for your chainsaw. You only choice it to cut through your neighbors garage, steal their car, and saved yourself and your family form what is coming.

 

[scavengerspc]

3 weeks after the outage began you find yourself without power, without transportation. You have 5 gallons of gas in the garage for your lawnmower, and 2 gallons w/ the oil mix for your chainsaw. You only choice it to cut through your neighbors garage, steal their car, and saved yourself and your family form what is coming.

I honestly can tell you if it's an end of days outage, nothing is going to save you. I'm not sure how far you think you can get with 5 gallons of gas in a smoker, but the inevitable is still going to happen.

Of course, the sun never runs out, and wont become useless after setting over time, and level 1 charging speeds are available with minimum solar to recharge an EV.

How Long Would It Take To Charge an Electric Car With a Solar Panel: EV Solar

How Long Would It Take To Charge an Electric Car With a Solar Panel? EV Solar Charging Stats. Public Charging Vs. Home EV Solar Charge Cost.

8billiontrees.com

Solved! How to Use Your Home's Solar Panels to Charge Your Electric Car

Your home's solar panels can shave a considerable amount off the cost of charging your EV.

www.bobvila.com

EDIT - If your disaster was from an EMP or CME, for preparedness:

EMP Proof Solar Panels — Eddy Currents & Resistance - ShopSolar.com

EMP proof solar panels are a great way to protect your home from an EMP attack. But what are they? How do they work? Read on to find out.

shopsolarkits.com