Gaming laptops are heavy.
nvidia should try to make external gpu cheaper, e.g. put thunderbolt input port in gpu card
nvidia should try to make external gpu cheaper, e.g. put thunderbolt input port in gpu card
Jensen Huang: Nvidia-powered gaming laptops will become the most popular gaming console
- Thread starter midian182
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Evernessince
Posts: 5,469 +6,158
1. Most people's computing needs are met with phones, tablets, ect. Sure a laptop is nice for doing bills taxes, ect but you don't need a gaming laptop to do that. In fact some tablets come with keyboards now. Unfortunately these kind of devices have decreased people's computer know-how. We always thought our kids were going to become extremely computer literate but unfortunately things went the opposite way.
2. Well for starters, the console in question is not worse then the $900 laptop example above. It's significantly better. If you wanted the best gaming device possible, you would be buying a desktop, not a laptop. FYI buying a cheap laptop and a console is not about wasting money, it's about buying what you can afford. It's a lot easier to buy a cheap laptop one year and then a console a few years later. I used to have a lot of poor friends in college and the only reason they were able to afford a computer is because I would buy and build the computer for them and they would pay me a monthly sum. And yes, a $325 laptop will be fine for web-browsing after 4 years. Typically the most worn thing I find is the keyboard and that is usually disgusting. Otherwise you don't need much power at all to browse the web. You can get laptops for cheaper, $325 is really the minimum you want to spend if you don't want a laptop with embedded flash storage.
"It's not about mobility. People don't buy laptops for mobility. Most of the time, they are used as stationery desktop PC replacements, just with an added bonus of them being mobile (which people are happy to take advantage of). Battery life is beside the point in such situations. Those who do travel a lot, and do work on the go will not be buying gaming laptops anyways. It's why Apple gets away with crappy GPUs inside of Macs. But if you a Mac which you tie to desk, and then a console for gaming, you're just wasting money..."
The ONLY advantage of laptops is that they are mobile. They have no other advantage over typical desktops and many disadvantages. If you aren't taking advantage of it's mobility, you shouldn't buy a laptop. I have never seen someone use a laptop as a stationary desktop PC replacement. If I want to be stationary I'll use my desktop. If I feel like chilling outside or around the house, I'll use my desktop. Heck depending on the situation, I might stream shows from my desktop to one of my TVs.
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Fobus
Posts: 127 +103
1. But how? Small screen size alone stops you from doing anything productive. And then the non-existing multitasking... If you have a dozen or two of tabs open, how are you supposed to do any comparisons or research? Or take learning for example. All the material/texts/youtube tutorials on one screen, actual programs on the other. No way to do that on phone/tablet. You can't even minimize youtube without it stopping playing. Modern world requires lifelong learning. Spreadsheets, word processors, editing, all either far less efficient or nigh impossible on tablets. And that's before even thinking of running anything more exotic. So how average person's computing needs could be met with a smartphone? Take another example. I have a program to rip audio of youtube videos, like podcasts, interviews, which then I listen to while biking or in gym with a clip-on MP3 player, because of superior battery life and because I don't want to have large smartphone on me. You can't do that with smartphone. Apple it seems does not even allow access to file system to accomplish anything worthwhile.
And it's not just about power. I do think modern SOCs are quite powerful. It's also about the screen size, K&M, and software. My parents, in their fifties, don't use their smartphones for much more than making calls. They nearly always do everything on desktop/laptop, for example how are you supposed to offload GPS waypoints with a smartphone? Many such devices usually only have a windows program.
2. If you can only afford a cheap laptop, you should be buying older gen desktop parts. Far better value. Gaming device like a console is a luxury. I get the upfront cost. But in the longer term, you end up paying more, if you spread your money into multiple electronics. Isn't it better to just get desktop PC with no discrete GPU and then a few years later, instead of getting a console, buy a GPU for your PC?
Maybe I was not clear about desktop replacement. Very few people I know use their laptops as mobile computing devices, like working during a train ride, or in coffee shops. Most of the time, it's all about the transportation aspect. As in, I put it in the bag and go to friends house to play some games. Or move between different rooms. Or in bed. But most of the time, it sits on desk, right were desktop PC used to be. But the fundamental computing is no different, it's just a more personal device. It's fundamentally different from how people use smartphones. Nowadays, you can hardly see a person without smartphone on public transport. But that doesn't mean they are working or doing anything serious. It's not replacing laptops.
And it's not just about power. I do think modern SOCs are quite powerful. It's also about the screen size, K&M, and software. My parents, in their fifties, don't use their smartphones for much more than making calls. They nearly always do everything on desktop/laptop, for example how are you supposed to offload GPS waypoints with a smartphone? Many such devices usually only have a windows program.
2. If you can only afford a cheap laptop, you should be buying older gen desktop parts. Far better value. Gaming device like a console is a luxury. I get the upfront cost. But in the longer term, you end up paying more, if you spread your money into multiple electronics. Isn't it better to just get desktop PC with no discrete GPU and then a few years later, instead of getting a console, buy a GPU for your PC?
Maybe I was not clear about desktop replacement. Very few people I know use their laptops as mobile computing devices, like working during a train ride, or in coffee shops. Most of the time, it's all about the transportation aspect. As in, I put it in the bag and go to friends house to play some games. Or move between different rooms. Or in bed. But most of the time, it sits on desk, right were desktop PC used to be. But the fundamental computing is no different, it's just a more personal device. It's fundamentally different from how people use smartphones. Nowadays, you can hardly see a person without smartphone on public transport. But that doesn't mean they are working or doing anything serious. It's not replacing laptops.
I agree. Game streaming is the next big thing. I have an Nvidia Shield with Geforce Now game streaming, it's very, very good. plus, there's emulation and Steam. Just log into Steam and play most of your games with no install, right from the cloud. There is a free tier and $5/month, so worth it.
ShagnWagn
Posts: 1,297 +1,085
I strongly disagree. Coming from someone who is a multi-millionaire and money is no object, he is out of touch with the value of a dollar.
Why do I say this? He is not comparing similar budgets. Laptops are very expensive and you are paying a premium. Granted, portability and its own screen attached is a big benefit, but we need apples to apples here:
What would be comparable? A micro computer the size and cost of a console. Then we need to compare them side-by-side. It is what I will be building next for my HTPC (except high end equipment).
Why do I say this? He is not comparing similar budgets. Laptops are very expensive and you are paying a premium. Granted, portability and its own screen attached is a big benefit, but we need apples to apples here:
What would be comparable? A micro computer the size and cost of a console. Then we need to compare them side-by-side. It is what I will be building next for my HTPC (except high end equipment).
BigRedPDX
Posts: 313 +224
Oh, okay. I agree with that side of the debate. I do enjoy having my laptop around for gaming and the productivity I need it for. My only problem, still, is the amount of "hacking" going on with online PC gaming. Lately I've only broken out my highly modded Skyrim and few other single player games to avoid the amount of cheating going on with PC multiplayer. I was strictly a PC gamer for a long time and wouldn't even consider a console as on option. A few hacked Call of Duty lobbies later and I went to the store and bought the PS3. I like to be a fair gamer, but I can't stop everyone else from trying to beat the system. At least I get to keep my pride.
Evernessince
Posts: 5,469 +6,158
1. In the case of a learning environment laptops are a little more common although not massively more. Of course that number varies greatly depending on the average student's wealth. At a state university only about 25% of students will have a laptop. Pen and Paper is still the preferred method for many and is actually superior for note taking given that often you cannot type out everything in many classes like diagrams. There are programs for that but it is much faster to do so by hand (which is needed if you want to keep up with the teacher)
"All the material/texts/youtube tutorials on one screen, actual programs on the other."
The thing is, a majority of subjects don't have programs that are needed nor YouTube tutorials. Most people need a device to access their grades and submit work online (of which they can use the school's computers). Not every book is digital either and it's often preferable to have a physical copy. A physical copy doesn't take up screen real estate and it often cheaper then a digital one.
"Small screen size alone stops you from doing anything productive. And then the non-existing multitasking... If you have a dozen or two of tabs open, how are you supposed to do any comparisons or research?"
Android does allow side by side applications now so you can multi-task. Even then, I rarely see people use it. It fairly easy enough to cycle through apps on mobile systems and many websites are designed to work well on small screens now. It's far from ideal for someone like you and me but for the average person who has little need of dense UIs and having multiple programs up at a time, it won't likely bother them. If people really need a bigger screen, the desktop is still there.
2. That would require these people to be in the know about which old parts are good and which are not, how to put them together, ect. The average person might look at old desktop systems but not old parts. That said, if they are looking at laptops they are likely wanting the mobile aspect specifically.
"Maybe I was not clear about desktop replacement. Very few people I know use their laptops as mobile computing devices, like working during a train ride, or in coffee shops. Most of the time, it's all about the transportation aspect. As in, I put it in the bag and go to friends house to play some games. Or move between different rooms. Or in bed. But most of the time, it sits on desk, right were desktop PC used to be. But the fundamental computing is no different, it's just a more personal device. It's fundamentally different from how people use smartphones. Nowadays, you can hardly see a person without smartphone on public transport. But that doesn't mean they are working or doing anything serious. It's not replacing laptops. "
I used to do the same thing when I was a kid, only I carried my desktop around with me. Lan Party at school, lan party at a friends, ect. I had a laptop but my desktop was all around better.
Rayneofpayne
Posts: 502 +415
I mean, HDTV+Console, depending on what you find acceptable the price can change quite a bit.
A laptop does have the advantage of portability as well, plus is a PC so you can do work on it, and can serve as a gaming console, which I think is what he was trying to get at, you can get a 1200$ laptop on sale for $800 depending on corporate deals and holiday deals stacking from the likes of sell and such...but it depends on how powerful do you want it?
Personally speaking you can get a 15inch 4kOLED 16gb of RAM and a 2080 for $2000.
https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/gam...7590-laptop/gnvcb5cr746ps?view=configurations
That is alot of laptop for what used to cost over $3k and had bad performance. Buy a Rift S or an Index, a Gsync ultrawide 1440p and a good keyboard and mouse, and honestly it's a hell of a great battle station.
Same here. I have a MSI GT76 Titan that I use for business and at home.
https://www.techspot.com/community/members/scavengerspc.428534/#about
Expensive ($3800), but I not only sold my previous gaming laptop but also my desktop, and wont be building another.
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HafizNafes89
Posts: 70 +41
Now that the PS5 is on the way here I think I should hold off on getting one and just get a gaming laptop at the end of this year. While I do find it tempting to own a gaming console, I love having a system that can do everything from productivity to schoolwork and gaming. Coming from already owning a gaming pc and a few consoles I believe that a platform upgrade is the most cost-effective solution. The Laptop I currently own is still good enough for mainstream gaming and is still in great condition. I can sell my laptop later and use some of the money to help buy a more powerful laptop in the future. And by the time the Consoles are released Ryzen 4000 and RNDA2 will be as well! Nvidia will also be releasing powerful mainstream cards capable of destroying the Radeon 5700.
Playstation 5 $500 Possible prices
1 extra controller $100
2 extra Ps5 games about $120
43inch Samsung Qled Smart TV $600
Playstation Wireless Headsets $100
1-year Playstation Plus $60
Total $1480
Xbox Series X $600 Probably (Knowing Microsoft)
1 Extra controller $100
The turtle beaches that I own are compatible 0$
2 Xbox X games $120
1year Xbox live $50
43inch Samsung Qled Smart TV $600
Total $1470
PC Desktop Platform Upgrade
Ryzen 3700x $310
32 GB ddr4 3200 ram $160
AMD B450 Motherboard $80
Total $550
Playstation 5 $500 Possible prices
1 extra controller $100
2 extra Ps5 games about $120
43inch Samsung Qled Smart TV $600
Playstation Wireless Headsets $100
1-year Playstation Plus $60
Total $1480
Xbox Series X $600 Probably (Knowing Microsoft)
1 Extra controller $100
The turtle beaches that I own are compatible 0$
2 Xbox X games $120
1year Xbox live $50
43inch Samsung Qled Smart TV $600
Total $1470
PC Desktop Platform Upgrade
Ryzen 3700x $310
32 GB ddr4 3200 ram $160
AMD B450 Motherboard $80
Total $550
QuantumPhysics
Posts: 6,306 +7,258
Nobina
Posts: 4,509 +5,529
Fobus
Posts: 127 +103
Yeah, hacking on PC sucks, wish companies took it more seriously... That said, PC has amazing single player library, especially strategy games. I've sunk 1000's of hours into Total war, Civilization, Age of Empires, X-COM, Might and Magic, Stronghold Crusader, etc. Good times.
Fobus
Posts: 127 +103
School is a special case, I was talking about life long learning, that modern world demands, though still applies. But it boggles my mind. While I still use pen and paper, because it helps memorization, I can't imagine reading court case summaries on my phone... Or reading passed laws and accompanying commentary. How many thousands of pages of legal documents are produced? It's impossible to have your work done on a 6 inch screen. Not to mention you don't have all the programs that help you analyze all those pages of legalize, because no person can be expected to parse all of that.
You take nearly every profession, every learning project, chances are there will at least be some component that has software only on PC, or would massively benefit form having bigger screen.
I think Xbox with dual booter would be the ultimate gaming machine. Microsoft, being the maker of Windows, could easily achieve this. Xbox already uses x86 AMD APU. You would get the best of both worlds, the cost of a console, and a flexibility of a PC. Imagine loading steam games? And all the productivity of Windows.
you were talking about performance not drivers problems right?,
ShagnWagn
Posts: 1,297 +1,085
I can't really agree on your price comparison. You are assuming to re-use your existing monitor, but you factor in a brand new TV for consoles. To be fair, you need to play on the same screen for all systems. You also reference the cost of games, of which you did not add into a PC. You also do not reference a brand new controller for the PC rather than just use the one consoles come with (can consoles use the previous generation controllers like the PC?). You also will not gain any benefit from 32 GB ram vs 16 GB ram.
So, to update your PC price:
PC Desktop Platform Upgrade
Ryzen 3700x $310
32 GB ddr4 3200 ram $90
AMD B450 Motherboard $80
2 PC games $120
43inch Samsung Qled Smart TV $600
1 controller $100
Total $1300
What a console can't match is the versatility, productivity, and freedom of a PC.
HafizNafes89
Posts: 70 +41
This is not really meant to be a price comparison. it's more of an evaluation of which path would work best for an existing pc gamer such as myself. As for the PC platform upgrade I only listed items that would be needed to make that upgrade. A 43-inch Samsung TV is not really capable of providing a proper pc gaming experience. So even if I didn't already have a 34-inch 100hz ultrawide monitor, then I probably would go for something like that instead. I already own a 1080p television but since the consoles promise 4k gaming, its only right the I get a television that properly supports it. While I know that games don't really use more than 16gb of ram, I desire a build with that much ram from the jump. It helps to have 32gb of ram for adobe premiere pro. I can also still have a proper PC gaming Experience with My Logitech G502 and G810 Mouse and Keyboard. Not to mention I have a huge existing steam library of games to hold me off until new pc game releases go down in price. I could probably use my existing ram if I wanted to drive the price down further. I will later make a proper cost comparison guide for pc vs consoles once they are released and matured a bit as I have for the previous consoles. That said, I still think that gaming on consoles is a bit cheaper than a PC. The price gap isn't as bad as some people make it out to be.
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